I figured out that people with the highest IQ are those who actually dismiss the whole idea of IQ because its human-made concept and there is no actual test which can measure intelligence well, because intelligence isnt matching pictures to commands.
The whole IQ concept divides instead of creating a self sufficent society where everyone has their own role based on their unique abilities.
Im learning cognitive science in college and its dumb imo that we say that some birds have a high IQ. Like, they definitely DO have „high IQ” in our understanding, but its literally what we PERCIEVE as intelligence. We (humans) created measurments for ourself to label us and place us on an universal hierarchy. In reality nobody is worth more than another person. So many things in the world are about labeling and dividing rather than uniting. Its very depressing for me.
If the intelligence was measured by the level of adapting to life, then unicellular organisms would be more intelligent than us. There are so many living creatures which adapt better, multiplies their species better, do a lot of things evolutionary better.
Let me know your thoughts on this topic. Do you agree? Why/ why not? Lets start a discussion:)
Also I am very thankful that I got welcomed so wholeheartedly here. Such a nice community, thank you guys. Bless you
Theres some good thinking there I think. IQ is definitely a controversial and flawed metric of the late modern age. Intelligence is a complex subject. Any one way of evaluating it will ignore some important element of its broad scope.
I dunno if it’s simply for hierarchical and separation purposes, but I do think it’s human nature to want to categorize and label everything— it’s just how we make sense of the world around us.
But yes, I will say that IQ test results have done some harm amongst certain populations. There have been concerted efforts throughout history to erase people who do not measure up to standard, so to speak.
Again, the quantifying and qualifying of “intelligence” is not inherently bad— it’s just what we choose to do with such information that could be seen as such.
Congrats on going to college, a lot to explore when in school, new ideas, good things. I have no opinion of IQ. I’ve never met a person in real life that talked to me about their IQ. Professors, doctors, engineers I’ve met usually just shoot the bull. I’ve never felt compelled to take an IQ test because even if I was intelligent it would mean nothing if I didn’t apply myself. Pragmatists believe if you can not apply something than it has no value. I mean there are rebuttals to every philosophy. They’re all flawed. You just have to pick a philosophy to live by and know it’s slightly flawed. But I think pragmatism is a good philosophy especially for young people. A lot of medical doctors I’ve talked to live by pragmatic values. I think anytime you get an accolade it can be used as a crutch and take away from intellectual humility. An achievement of greatness gives one a sense of betterment compared to their peers. Good luck with your studies.
Starting out any thinking on a subject with doubt or skepticism (“I dunno”) is considered wise. Intelligence metrics are not simply for hierarchical or separation purposes, after all intelligence itself should do that on its own in certain social systems, despite how it is understood and measured. Of course, as you go on to suggest intelligence metrics are and have been weaponized against groups in the past, and are used currently to sort people especially in higher education institutions as standardized testing. Claims of human nature can be equally weaponized as essentialism of human qualities, but I think the one that you make is a basic function of the brain that exists despite cultural learnings and is universal: every culture distinguishes different things and names them. Although the way that is done can be weaponized too, as in defining intelligence levels. Ultimately, your conclusion that measuring and defining intelligence is not inherently bad accepts the reality that any society or culture at any time will pass judgement in some way on a group member’s ability to think. However, the specific types of tasks and ways of thinking will drastically change what kinds of intelligence is valued. Choosing to weaponize one culture or groups understanding of intelligence against anothers may be inherently bad. In a cultural relativistic way of looking at things one culture’s biases in intelligence can’t be applied in evaluating the biases of another’s. That shows the fairness of cultural relativism, but the weakness of relativism is in morals: a group or culture that weaponized intelligence against another can’t be judged to be bad, but has to be understood based on their own moral codes.
Yes, I think judgement is present everywhere— even when it comes to IQ tests. Some people look down on individuals if their IQ isn’t in a certain bracket, and others can be straight haters if one’s IQ is considered on the higher side.
Unfortunately, the American school system has placed a tremendous amount of weight on IQ tests. Typically, there is separate curricula for the kiddos whose scores are above a certain threshold— Gifted education (as they call it) is more of a tailored approach to the child’s interests and strengths, and they receive more hands-on interaction from a gifted education facilitator in addition to a general classroom setting amongst their peers. It’s not special treatment per se, but there are absolute perks to being a gifted kid— the individualized learning plans, the time spent away from general ed… Some might see it as not fair to the children who remain in general ed, but at the same time, how can schools best accommodate the kids who grasp material faster and with more ease? It’s a double-edged sword.
Of course, having a high IQ is not a measure of a successful outcome alone. There are for sure other types of intelligence, specifically emotional intelligence (or EQ), that many would argue is crucial for an upward trajectory in workplace environments and the social sphere. It’s difficult to quantify such an intelligence— but EQ definitely exists and it’s an extremely important quality that many might argue supersedes that of IQ alone.
Yes— many cultures value STEM (math, engineering, science) above learning the classics, for example. In the States, we’re in a race to compete with the rest of the world, and have begun placing massive importance on all things STEM, doing a huge disservice to those kids whose brains function better in a qualitative capacity. Then you have some cultures who don’t even push school at all. So it really just depends.
As far as weaponizing intelligence goes, I believe it’s inherently bad whenever something like this is used to the detriment of another group or individual. I dunno, I was specifically thinking of Nazi pogroms when I had mentioned that in my previous post. But there are for sure other instances of such behavior albeit “less severe”— think institutions rather than gas chambers.
But anyways, it’s 1:33am my side, so I’m not sure if I make any sense right now— sorry that I didn’t fully grasp everything you were saying .
3:30am here. I completely agree with everything you said, and not just because my brain is completely unable to produce any kind of argumentative power right now, but because your view is critical enough that it doesn’t need to be challenged except by a true believer in objective and universal intelligence. So lets agree to agree for now.
I think IQ is a flawed metric too. There’s different versions of tests and testing for example.
The concept of intelligence however is definitely real. Like someone can be superb at spatial reasoning or someone else an excellent verbal communicator and averages can come in to this (so called ranks) but I don’t think ranks nor types of Intelligence should be taken with much faith because you cannot measure every single member of the world population. You can only guesstimate what you think - which isn’t the most empirical of ideas.
It does a lot of harm as well. I’ve seen plenty of research and anecdotes of people doing well in children’s aptitude testing measures but then pressured into performance for the rest of their schooling. Often to the point of detrimental progress and burn out.
Yep its likely intelligence and brain function is way too objecified in modern society. Im sure thinking has always been a valued thing, but now it is really hyperevaluated… while I’m sure thinking ability has always been a thing in every time and place, its now kind of even presents a hazard to the mind as a society that really values lifting heavy weight would to our backs. It may not be intelligent for a society to hyperevaluate the intelligence of our minds.
The two points you made I wanted to say something about, that I thought about before are these: straight up haters to percieved higher intelligence, and the point about disenfranchising qualitative forms of intelligence.
On the point of “straight up haters” that actually throws a wrench into what we both seem to assume about human societies and cultures. Intelligence doesn’t have to be positively sanctioned, but can be negatively sanctioned by the group. Although there is a paradox there that whatever the group postively sanctions in terms if thought is “intelligence” even though the person or group being hated on might be more correct in their thinking.
On the issue of disenfranchising other qualitatative forms of intelligence… what is measurable or in a binary of right wrong can be easily quantified. There’s so much that a person can do with their mind that can’t be measured or judged. Ultimately human culture depends on art, writing, debate/ discussion/ discourse, opinion and interpretations… right and wrong and higher and lower are not really relevent to what the total society produces as a culture, even though some may be empowered or disenfranchised by those objectivities.
Anyway… those points kind of stood out, maybe triggered me a bit because I thought of them before or something.
Hey guys. Ive read your opinions and its an awesome debate. I wanted to participate but i had something to do.
Now i just woke up so my brain is fried and i cant really think straight to answer, but Im very happy to see a lot of good takes here!
My dreams lasted like a week of time put in 12hr of sleep. It was all weird running away from a crazy out of this world war. And i remember being in a mall and activating a dolphin to fight against (?) some group.
I always get these long lasting, realistic, metaphysical dreams! And then dont remember anything.
Yeah of course every language is just about labeling, but we seem to want to label more and more, categorise until everything fits into a drawer that is described, but because of this we get into separation more, instead of being an unity! And there’s never an end to labeling, because you can delaminate into infinity.
There are some tribes where many „necessary” (in our opinion) words are just nonexistent! Because the words about weather and different types of rain are much more useful, than words as intelligence.
I think we just got far away from the right path made for humankind. Labels are good when they are meant for communication, not for division. Thats my opinion.
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